NOTE: These are my notes from a lecture I gave on Retrogrades in Pisa, Italy. I have given this lecture so many times that I do not want to give it again…so I am sharing my notes with everyone.
The other planets turn retrograde when they are only the opposite side of the chart from the Sun. In a natal horoscope, any planet in opposition to the Sun will always be retrograde. Many times a planet forming a trine to the Sun will be retrograde also. Mars turns retrograde for slightly less than 2 1/2 months every 2 years.
â€¢ Jupiter through Pluto are retrograde every year.
â€¢ Jupiter is retrograde for 4 months.
â€¢ Saturn through Pluto are retrograde for 5 months.
When a planet is retrograde, it does not work in its normal manner. It frequently needs to make changes or work on an inner, psychological level before it can express itself outwardly.
When Mercury is retrograde, the thought processes are introspective, deliberate and internalized. Before any personal matter can be discussed, it must be processed internally.
This means that, if you want to discuss a personal matter with a Mercury Retrograde friend, you must tell them what you want to discuss and set up an appointment to discuss it. If you want an immediate answer, you will not get an honest or well though out answer. They need time to brood and ponder.
Because these people need to digest and process first, they are slow to defend themselves and slow to respond to queries of a personal nature unless they are prepared ahead of time.
â€¢ They appreciate a slow reaction in another.
â€¢ They can easily discuss non-personal subjects, their own interests and expertise, without introspection. This has already been done in the past.
On personal subjects, they may not know immediately how they feel about something â€“ they need that brood and ponder time.
Perception is quite good because they are sensitive to how they feel about things; the perceptions are highly individualized.
They prefer a Reflective Analysis. In intellectual matters, they are rarely superficial but they tend to analyze, re-analyze, reflect and then apply internally.
There is a perfectionistic side so they can talk in absolutes – using terms such as â€œalwaysâ€ and â€œnever.â€
Many Mercury retrograde people feel that they had no one to talk to as a child.
The thoughts and mental activity became internalized and highly subjective.
They may be prone to day dream.
Some may be so absorbed in their own internalized thoughts that they seem absent-minded and unaware of external activities. This is especially true if Mercury is retrograde in the cadent (3, 6, 9, 12) Houses. And, especially if aspecting Neptune, a planet that can go off into its own world and lose track of time.
With Mercury R or in the 12th House, they all too easily go off into their own thoughts so they miss a lot of information due to the â€œtuning outâ€ process. Tuning Out can make them appear forgetful.
In school, I would always lose my place in reading classes. When (not) listening, I often do not get all of the information. Now that I am older, I try very hard to concentrate when others are speaking.
Afflictions in Houses 3-6-12 can cause learning disabilities – Dyslexia, ADHD (Attention Deficit Learning Disorder). One child was later discovered to be deaf in one ear and tried to compensate by listening a lot.
This can be the signature of the scientific thinker. Many of the astronauts in the late 1960-early 1970s had Mercury Retrograde.
SPEED OF MERCURY: The speed that Mercury is moving can indicate the speed at which an individual can process information. One friend whose Mercury moved 2 degrees on the day she was born was a very fast and sharp thinker. She had a rare ability to think quickly with little time for reflection.
Those born with Mercury Retrograde take longer to process information but their solutions to problems often have more insight and wisdom.
FEEDBACK: â€œI have learned that, when something is presented quickly, I need to ask to think about it.â€
â€¢ Mercury in the 2nd can be the bargain hunter
â€¢ Mercury in Houses 3-4 often needs quiet in order to think. This is often true of Venus R in these Houses as well. They have a problem concentrating when there are distractions and arguments in the home. Mercury in the 3rd is very prone to study and research but they need quiet. They may appear slow only because they need to have all of the facts first.
â€¢ Mercury in the 5th can think more than create but this develops in time. This is a signature of a good teacher. They are good with games that require detailed concentration.
â€¢ Mercury in the 6th – here you will see more of the perfectionist qualities coming out in their work; they appear slow because they require all of the facts.
â€¢ Mercury in the 7th has difficulty making up their minds about marriage, then they may marry hastily and rethink it later. They often have difficulty discussing the problems in the marriage.
â€¢ Mercury in the 8th is best suited for 8th House research and study.
â€¢ Mercury in the 9th can be the fact collector and they may not be able to get all of the answers that they want. Any planet in the 9th House can indicate an interruption in education. They often return to school later to complete their education.
â€¢ Mercury in the 10th may see a job as a learning experience where they will acquire the knowledge and experience that they need to know. They are thorough and reliable.
â€¢ Mercury in the 11th can be selective of friendships, preferring like-minded people who are brood and ponder types or more scientific thinkers. They prefer intellectual-type groups.
â€¢ Mercury in the 12th works very well at deep psychological and investigative level. A friend works as a therapist in the prison system. She said that she has thoughts buried so deep inside of herself that she does not even know what they are – and she does not even know how to get them out. They do not show others that they are depressed. They can experience problems with their sleep patterns.
There is an innate sense of unloveableness that seems to have been experienced all throughout the life. Sometimes there was no real event but a general feeling of not being loved as a child. This could actually be some real karmic pattern – truly brought over from a past life.
In feeling unloveable, not attractive, not being worthy, they learn to value what is often overlooked by others. This can make them very humanitarian in their life activities or they can just be attracted to people who take advantage of them.
With the humanitarian goals, they have a great capacity to dedicate themselves to a higher purpose.
A few years ago I looked at the horoscopes of Great Rescuers during WWII. Many of these people, because they feel that others were worth more than themselves, dedicated their lives and risked their lives to help the Jews escape the Nazis.
A neighbor with Venus R in Gemini in the 9th has never been interested in making a lot of money. He has often dedicated his life to a guru or inspirational teacher. Currently, he is in China teaching English. I have observed a pattern of people with Venus Retrograde moving to under-developed countries to teach English. They can make a lot of money in these jobs but they always feel that they are going great good for others.
They have blocks connected with expressing affection due to a fear of rejection.
Often a late bloomer, they do not bloom until they figure out what is the correct situation (career and relationships) for them â€“ how to use this Venus and how to find love and fulfillment through the Venus Retrograde.
Example: One woman was a large but very attractive woman whose mother realized that she was never going to be a beauty queen. She always had a feeling of being unloveable because her appearance was not what her mother valued.
If anyone saw her, they could not deny that this was a very attractive woman (big beautiful woman). When Venus turned direct by progression, all of a sudden she started to accept herself, appreciate herself as a beauty on her own terms.
Sometimes, there can manifest self-centeredness as a defense against their unlovableness feelings. They need a lot of reassurance but this attitude does not really work for them.
Venus R is not just being unloveable but feeling unacceptable. These individuals often seek out those people who are a little eccentric, different, not of the ordinary mode – they seek new levels of relating where they feel that they truly belong and fit in.
They have a capacity to help others who themselves feel that they do not belong in the world of traditional values. They learn to appreciate others for less superficial reasons, other than show and appearance.
They often feel that they are not in tune with people that they consider shallow.
Being a bit anti-social, they feel more comfortable in 1-to1 relationships rather than social functions and parties where there is a lot of phoney, showy behavior.
They do not like superficial relating. They are definitely not the â€œcocktail partyâ€ types.
FEEDBACK: â€œI have always had trouble with peers, people my own age. I had to grow up early in life after the death of my mother.â€ She says that she has learned to be compassionate and understanding of others. However, I have observed that this woman had allowed men to take advantage of her. She tolerates too much from people who are abusive. Currently, she prefers to be alone. She now dedicates herself to animals.
There is a deep scar and wound in these people. It is how they learn to heal this in themselves that determines the course of their lives.
Venus R in the 2nd – Internal insecurity can make these people desirous of financial security. They can marry for money but it is because of an inner fear of rejection and insecurity. A woman may marry and older man for security.
EXAMPLES: One woman with Venus R in Aquarius in the 2nd was a prostitute who would fall in love with her customers and then give her services away for free. She would complain when she was not making money. Yet, she was very desirous of having money and fine possessions as proof of her worth.
Any planet within 6 degrees of the 2nd cusp is considered (in my personal observations) to be a 2nd House planet. Planets here need certain types of exercise â€” aerobics, Tai Chi, Yoga to stimulate the lymph and Chi in the body.
Another man with Venus R in 2nd in Aquarius always gave presents to other people so they would love him…but he was a very loveable man anyway. Another woman with Venus R in the 2nd House was a stripper and she did have sex for money. Her problem with the Venus R is that she would be so attracted to some of her customers that she gave away a lot of freebees just to be with that man.
Venus in the 3rd and 4th House need peace and quiet in their personal environment. They do not like quarreling, arguing and contention in their environment. They can have an â€œadoptedâ€ family.
Venus R in 4th: These people need a lot of love and reassurance from their family and an appreciation for the â€œhomeâ€ that they create. Therefore, they can enjoy entertaining in their home but this is a means of seeking love and appreciation.
Venus R in 5th: I do not have strong observations about Venus R in the 5th. Remember, Venus R possesses some internal insecurity â€” often brought over from a past life. In love, they can be hesitant and need reassurance before opening their hearts.
A statement from a recent film applies to Venus R â€” we attract the love that we think we deserve.
Similar to Venus in the 12th House, they can accept love through their creative or recreative accomplishments. When this builds self-esteem, they can accept quality love in their lives.
Venus in the 6th House can undervalue themselves and their work. Some can be so insecure that they do not do their work, feeling that anything that they do is unworthy.
Venus in the 7th often prefers the unconventional in relationships. They can attract an undemonstrative partner. If you feel that you do not deserve more, you will not demand and get more.
Venus in 8th: It is important to understand the 8th House. This is the most obsessive House â€” many have different levels of OCD! Many of my friends have planets in the 8th because they are creative and intuitive but they can never ever stay in my home!
Planets in the 8th NEED obsessions but these must always be directed outside of themselves â€” internalizing causes extreme obsessiveness that is highly alienating. These people may obsess on a relationship but never express their feelings or, when they make their feelings known, it comes at an inappropriate time, whereby they get rejected.
Venus R here causes problems with intimacy and there can be issues around the partnerâ€™s finances. Healing or service-to-others and the welfare of others can be fulfilling.
Venus in the 9th often marries someone from a different social or cultural background. This can give them an edge of superiority. Because they feel that they do not fit in, the difference in the relationship is less threatening. Delays in education – they can put others through college before themselves or it gets postponed because of the needs of others.
Venus in the 10th has a shyness that is very obvious. They can allow bosses to take advantage of their work and recognition comes much later.
Venus in the 11th is a position that actually does better in group situations. 1-to-1s can be scarey. They can easily make sacrifices for the benefit of the group.
Venus in the 12th gives a larger overview of Venus Retrograde generally. In the 12th, there can be much internal scarring so that the individual may set themselves up as a victim in all relationships because they do not feel lovable.
Ideally, they work best with â€œunlovable peopleâ€ as therapists, in the helping professions, championing the underdog.
They have problems when they judge themselves by traditional values, by other peopleâ€™s standards. Happiness comes when they develop their own unique values about what is worthy, lovable and of value!
Feedback by student: Timing is a problem in relationships – meeting the right person at the wrong time. They feel that they do not deserve to reach out to another person. They lack relating confidence. Many feel that there is a â€œprotectiveâ€ quality to this Venus which comes at a critical moment in their lives.
Mars rules how we initiate, how we take the initiative and how we deal with and express anger.
Whenever I see this aspect, I have observed that the individual came from a family in which no one knew how to express or deal with anger. It signifies a family pattern and it will show up with the other family members in some way, with their Marsâ€™ either by aspect or Interception.
With Mars R, reactions, aggressive urges and hostilities are internalized in some way. On the surface, they can appear calm but, inside, they can be a raging volcano. In other cases, anger is expressed inappropriately. And, it can be passive-aggressive in its indirectness. These people do not know how to express their anger.
The House position of Mars Retrograde is where you bottle up, bottle up, bottle up and then BOOM – they explode and cut off the situation. They feel anger inside but they do not know how to direct it and get it out.
They are rarely comfortable with direct, competitive activities, preferring to work alone or indirectly. This can manifest through encouraging the energies and supporting the enterprises of othersâ€¦such as a coach.
EXAMPLE: A client with Mars Retrograde in Libra finds it too difficult to fire an employee. As the owner of a successful business, she hired an aggressive woman who LOVES to fire people…so this is her job.
When anger is internalized, it leads to various psycho-physical distresses, including depression. They can be accident prone but, statistically, accident-prone people live longer than other â€œangryâ€ types because they will release their anger through jamming their toe on a chair rather than internalizing it for 20 years and suddenly dying of a heart attack!
FEEDBACK from Students:
1) In aggressive situations, I keep my mouth shut and â€œgo mild.â€
2) Alcoholic who drank rather than show anger. When this person stopped drinking, it released the anger.
3) Self-destructive and abusive relationships, also alcohol.
4) Gripes and complains a lot rather than do anything about problems.
5) Represses her anger until it does away. Her family immediately explodes with their anger and this anger is a distortion, over-reacting to what happened, she is afraid that she will be this herself so she keeps angry feelings inside.
6) Father was alcoholic and abusive – she learned not to say or do anything or the father would only get worse.
7) These individuals have a rather strong habit of suppressing anger, as well as their ambitions. This woman says that â€œthis is something we have to deal with all our lives.â€
Mars Progressed Retrograde Direct: My husband has Mars Rx along with five other retrogrades in his chart. When Mars turned Direct in his chart, he stopped drinking, became involved in 12-step recovery, got divorced and began to study Poekelan, an Indonesian martial art.
Mars R in 1st â€“ While these people can appear very calm, there is a smoldering volcano underneath. Like a volcano, they have their calm and quiet periods followed by an eruption that seems to come out of nowhere. Anger can be expressed with regard to sex. In its positive expression, the 1st House is connected esoterically with advocacy work, battling what is perceived as unjust or unfair, especially when connected with Jupiter. Setting priorities and determining which cause to fight is essential.
Mars R in 2nd – There is a sabotaging pattern with anger – they can work hard, save their money and then one day they get angry at the wife, take out all of the money from their savings account in the bank and buy a Porsche…then they have to start all over again saving their money.
Mars R in the 3rd and 4th tends to get along with family members for years and then all of a sudden they instigate a big fight and never speak to them again. In the 3rd, there can be a change in the behavior during the school years – the quiet child who all of a sudden starts getting into fights with other children.
Mars R in the 5th does better motivating the creativity or recreativity of others. Dancing or playing the drums helps them release energy. There can be impulsiveness in romantic relationships. They need to learn to be participants rather than simply spectators.
Mars R in the 6th can be a perfectionist in work projects and this can sometimes alienate co-workers. This can be mis-directed internal anger issues. The health can suffer through frustration and nervous anxiety about their work. They can experience tension headache due to high Cortisol levels.
Mars R or D in the 7th indicates that marriage will be the â€œbattle ground of your life.â€ When R, internalized anger can become mis-directed and projected onto others, causing tension in relationships and in dealing with the public. They much exercise caution against impulsiveness and acting belligerent with others and any anti-social behavior. They can instigate lawsuits but these will be fraught with costly delays.
Mars R in 8th can be very passionate but very troublesome internalized anger can impact sexual relationships. Using the â€œhealingâ€ powers of the 8th House, they have an ability to encourage and motivate others to success. They may marry someone who is not good with finances so they need to be in charge of the family resources.
Mars R in 9th: Any time there is a Retrograde planet in the 9th, the education may be interrupted and they go back to college at a later time. They need to be careful of legal confrontations and confrontations in foreign countries. They can be activists, projecting internal anger towards authority towards civil rights or environmental issues.
Mars R in 10th brings difficult with those in authority, which can hold them back professionally when they have to work under the thumb of others. They must always keep high standards in their work ethics or they can be plagued with scandals and losses. They always possess an ability to try, try again. They tend to be more successful in later life when they have learned some important lessons.
Mars R in 11th can cause many problems in groups and friendships. This energy is best projected onto activist activities with others who share a common vision.
Mars in the 12th often causes subconscious resentments, passive-aggressive behavior that they do not recognize in themselves but others clearly see it. It is best applied in helping the disadvantaged.
The House position of Mars Retrograde is where you bottle up, bottle up, bottle up and then BOOM – they explode and cut off the situation. They feel anger inside but they do not know how to direct it and get it out.
They are rarely comfortable with direct, competitive activities, preferring to work alone or indirectly. This can manifest through encouraging the energies and supporting the enterprises of others…such as a coach.
In your chart, this would apply to your one-to-one relationships. Anger issues are projected into the relationship but not in an obvious manner.
Some retrogrades are not bad at all and this is one of them. When Jupiter is Direct, there is a greater attunement to external appearances. The energy and appearance is more popular and acceptable.
When Jupiter is Retrograde, if you strive for material accomplishment and this is your main goal, you will find that these material things come up short; the more material/external your accomplishments, the more you will come to feel dissatisfied with your life.
There may be a great questing and seeking but, until they look inside, they will never find what they feel they are seeking.
There inner faith has some doubts or holes on it. This is why they are always searching for something that would give meaning to their lives – what they seek is anything that is philosophically uplifting.
I have a Direct Jupiter so I am always acquiring knowledge and information. If my Jupiter were Retrograde, I would need something that is more enriching internally.
Jupiter R often has an eye for quality because they are able to look beyond the externals. I tell my students that, where you find Jupiter R, this is where the individual has the ability to restore to life things that are considered dead or dying.
Jupiter rules playing a role in order to gain approval. Jupiter R does not want to play this role with anyone. When Jupiter is â„ž and afflicted, one individual stated that, in her family, you were only loved because you looked good, because you made a good appearance, and you were socially acceptable in everything that you said or did. Playing that role depleted the energies for the Jupiter R person. Playing a role is performing and not being real.
Jupiter R in Houses 2-6-8 have a natural healing ability but they do not always work directly in areas of physical healing. The Earth signs and Scorpio have the natural healing abilities. This includes animals, nature, and even objects (renovation and repair, especially with antiques, in the 2nd and 4th Houses). The natural ability to restore things to life.
They have a natural ability to restore things to life â€“ but this is not always physical healing. This position is good for figuring out better ways to do the work, better methodologies.
Jupiter â„ž in the 1st identifies very strongly with anything spiritual, philosophical or expansive on inner levels. This could restrict the individual financially since the material side of the career or life activity is not appealing and not a primary focus. They could actually neglect the physical because they live so strongly in the philosophical realms. They should avoid excessive involvement in theoretical concepts.
â€¢ Rob Hand has Jupiter in Cancer R here!
â€¢ He loves ancient philosophies and systems that actually may not be practical.
Jupiter â„ž in Sagittarius in the 1st House – One friend confided that she sometimes feels manic/depressive because her family life, her life as she is living it, does not connect with her need for spiritual values that she can practice in her daily life.
Jupiter R in 2nd – Externals are not as important but you can have money through using the qualities of Jupiter R in the 2nd. Jupiter rules playing a role in order to gain approval.
â€¢ Jupiter R does not want to play this role with anyone.
â€¢ Playing that role depleted the energies for the Jupiter R person.
â€¢ Playing a role is performing and not being real.
â€¢ Others can be helpful financially during the course of the life.
HEALTH: Playing this role can make Jupiter R ill as it is not natural for this R planet. This would be blood sugar irregularities mostly. So, you are attracted to role playing people with Jupiter-Sun but you can never be truly close to such people.
Jupiter R has a natural ability to restore things to life. So, Jupiter R makes money restoring or finding value in something that others overlook. The natural ability to restore things to lifeâ€” but this is not always physical healing. This position is good for figuring out better ways to do the work, better methodologies. The â€œwarningâ€ is to do what makes you happy and not worry about others â€œabandoningâ€ you because you do not do what they want.
In healing, the 2nd House needs body movement to keep it healthy, such as Tai Chi, Yoga, Aerobics etc.
Any opposition from the 8th House indicates conflicting values in the partnership.
Jupiter R in the 3rd and 4th Houses have an ability and willingness to go back and make a connection/relationship work.
â€¢ One individual put a lot of energy into getting people in her family to get along with each other.
â€¢ Jupiter R will always try to go back and try to re-connect.
â€¢ They possess skills in renovations, restoring homes and buildings – they have a natural ability to want to revive/restore that building, to bring it back to life!
Jupiter R in the 3rd House can possess a unique way of re-establishing communications and solving communications problems, in the work or in family relationships. They habitually review plans.
Jupiter R in the 5th – I have seen them try to work out a relationship with a child, always trying to re-connect. In romance, they will put that extra energy into reviving that relationship in some way…making the re-connection.
They can be interested in educational programs and making reforms in these programs. So, they might do well joining the PTA. They can be sympathetic towards the less fortunate and educational programs affecting the less fortunate. Self-improvement activities are important to them.
Jupiter R in 6th may not always be understood by co-workers. They try to understand and make reforms in work procedures, work conditions and work methodologies. In health, diet improvements are encouraged.
Jupiter in the 7th wants a partner who brings philosophically uplifting growth into the married life. When the relationship is failing, they have an ability to revive the relationship. There can be a broken engagement. They possess skills in marriage counseling, helping couples get back together.
Jupiter R in 8th can bring delays in matters around legal issues, insurance and settlements. They do have the ability to rescue and transform their partnerâ€™s finances. They have a strong interest in metaphysical subjects.
Jupiter in the 9th often does not really know what they believe in so they are always seeking and searching. They can get hooked on a religion or philosophy and then realize that it goes not give them all the answers they desire. There are lots of doubts in their faith, especially when the life becomes difficult.
They often go back and re-education themselves at a higher level. One individual did not finish high school.
Jupiter R in the 10th will often go back to college to improve their professional skills. They should not change their job just when success is at their door step. Recognition definitely comes after their first Saturn Return or the 3rd Jupiter Return.
Jupiter R in 11th must be careful not to lose self in groups and organizations. But, they may possess a gift for rescuing, revitalizing and reorganizing groups and organizations. They can be influenced by groups because they are unclear about what their goals and aspirations really are.
Jupiter R in 12th has an interest in the less fortunate and they may become involved with humanitarian groups. They have an interest in medicine, psychology and spiritual ministry. They possess a capacity to sacrifice for others.
I have a friend who is strongly interested in the spiritual side of life, rituals and astrology. He made sacrifices to take care of his mother for many years until she finally passed away. He stayed with his mother so that this wife could attend metaphysical events.
Saturn symbolizes the rules and regulations in the early environment. The sign shows the cultural/societal influences into which they were born.
â€¢ When Retrograde, you were never really taught an accurate sense of what the rules are and how much to you have to do in order to be responsible.
â€¢ You were not taught proper discipline but this does not mean that you were not disciplined but there was a certain vagueness about it so that you did not know when to stop yourselfâ€“when is it enough?
â€¢ They often have no idea of what they can or can not do.
â€¢ There is something missing in the relationship with the father that impacts the life â€“ divorce, at work, on the road at lot, killed in a war or died early â€“ with Neptune, he is preoccupied or ambivalent
Where you find Saturn R, this is where the individual has difficulty saying NO and defining boundaries. They have no clue where these boundaries are so that they have difficulty defining boundaries and setting limits for others as well as themselves.
Saturn R does not know its limitations. At times, these individuals confine themselves to a small corral when they could be roaming 40 acres; others can be so irresponsible that they think that they can roam 80 acres â€“ and all of a sudden they crash into the societal limits that the legal system imposes. They have no boundaries – there is a real problem when Neptune or Pisces is also strong.
One individual confided that he does not always pay his bills, does not pay taxes, does not like to work, does not clean…what does he do?! He looks for women to take care of him.
When Saturn is R natally, these people need to teach themselves to say NO, to set boundaries, to learn exactly what is expected of them, and to learn an accurate sense of responsibility. They need to go out into the world and stake out their own boundaries, fight that invisible barrier they create for themselves.
There can be much anxiety in responsibility situations because they do not know how far they can go before their chain begins to choke them. This can cause problems WITH responsibilities due to the self-doubt engendered about when they can actually be permitted to say NO.
Saturn â„ž in 1st is very typical of the 1st House Saturn. First, this position often was unwanted during the gestation period. Saturn here assumes responsibilities for others in order to feel wanted or connected to others. The Direct Saturn can isolate with a set of barriers to protect them. When â„ž, these people take on responsibilities for others in order to feel wanted and because they do not know when to say NO.
FEEDBACK: 1) One woman said that she always felt like a guest in her own home while growing up. She feels guilty for so much in her life that she will not even take personal calls in the office or take a longer lunch break. 2) â€œI take care of everyone!â€ 3) Another woman fears being isolated or trapped.
They have problems defining what they do or do not owe other people, especially in the people Houses â€“ 3-4-5-6-7-10-11
Saturn in the 2nd naturally feels that â€œyou only get what you work for and you work hard for everything you get.â€ They observed their own parents working very hard to provide for them so they adopted this â€œwork hardâ€ pattern or philosophy. When â„ž, they can feel financially responsible for everyone – â€œMy mom did everything for the family.â€ One individual said that her dad could not save money, poor Saturn structuring of boundaries, and he went bankrupt so this individual works very hard not to have this happen to her.
Saturn R in the 3rd and 4th often cannot say NO to the family members.
â€¢ In the 3rd, there can be early school problems because of that anxiety about how much do they have to do.
â€¢ Anxious students often have hearing problems and they misunderstand or make mistakes.
â€¢ That is, they are so anxious about being wrong that they do not hear correctly.
â€¢ When anxious, they become disoriented.
One individual with Saturn â„ž in the 3rd said that there was a cultural different so she had trouble communicating. She finally found improvement in her working relationships when she confessed her difficulty in communicating with others. Americans respond to such confessions and she immediately bonded with her co-workers who finally understood why she appeared so distant.
Saturn R in the 4th may have difficulty in identifying with the parents yet they cannot say NO. Assuming burdensome responsibilities may act to bond or connect them with family members (surely, they need to find another way). They may stay at home to take care of the parents. This could be due to a fear of being alone or in the dark.
â€¢ These people need to live at least 200 miles from their family in order to be their own person.
â€¢ Distance makes it easier to say NO
Saturn R in the 5th has trouble saying NO to children, especially the first born! Several had commented that they could say NO to the other children but not that first born!!
â€¢ One woman said that she is overly responsible, feeling that she had to do it all herself, and she never had a babysitter to help her.
â€¢ Another said that having the child really helped them to focus and get organized with other tasks in their life.
Their expressions of love towards others are often misunderstood.
They are not successful in gambling or speculation, unless very well aspected. They generally prefer save investment.
Saturn R in the 6th and 10th are perfectionists in their work because they do not know their boundaries. They have trouble putting their foot down, defining boundaries and saying NO so that bosses and employees take advantage of them. This is not an effective position for being a boss.
Saturn R in the 7th attracts parenting issues in relationships. They can attract an irresponsible partner and the relationship becomes a parent-child relationship that is never satisfying to either partner.
â€¢ The 7th House rules what we attract in others. Saturn in the 7th can attract parenting issues in relationships.
â€¢ If you are the disciplined one, then you may be the one who had to define boundaries for others.
â€¢ It is good that you understand how to say No or this could be a troublesome placement.
Saturn R in the 8th warns that you really know the partnerâ€™s financial circumstances (and how they handle money) before you legally tie yourself to this person because these can be a liability for you. S. Orman says that you need to look at your fatherâ€™s attitude towards finances in order to see how you deal with financial matters. This is especially true with Saturn R in the 8th House.
Saturn R in the 9th, especially â„ž, should never be raised in a strict religious environment — but they usually are! One woman went to Catholic school and feels that she had religion shoved down her throat. They can get lost in religious dogma to a point where they do not know who they really are. They need to define a new value structure.
â€¢ Several students noticed a pattern of being raised by parents from different cultures or different backgrounds. This was often true of the 3rd H Saturn R.
â€¢ Lots of guilt here and maybe a lot of fear as well.
â€¢ They may go back for further education. Some interruption in the education is shown. One very brilliant man changed universities a lot due to self-doubts.
There is an attitude of rejection or not being good enough coming through the religious or philosophical attitude of the parents or church. If they accept this without question, they feel guilt and shame; if they reject this, they reject God.
âœ Saturn in the 9th might indicate or reflect as being rather uninterested in what other people’s opinions have to offer.
Saturn R has problems around the father and defining responsibility.
Saturn R in the 10th brings these problems to the work place. There is always a need to define boundaries and say NO so that others do not do this for you â€” then you are trapped by the demands of others. This Saturn R brings obstacles when you do not know yourself and your attitude towards responsibility. Until you do, success and recognition will be delayed to late in life.
In the 10th, Saturn R has problems around the father and defining responsibility â€” Saturn R in Gemini does not like any limiting responsibilities. They work best out of their heads and knowing exactly what is expected â€” so they know their free time.
Saturn R in the 10th brings these problems to the work place â€” you said that you do not like to work. There is always a need to define boundaries and say NO yourself so that others do not do this for you â€” then you are trapped by the demands of others.
This Saturn brings obstacles when you do not know yourself and your attitude towards responsibility. Until you do, success and recognition will be delayed to late in life.
Saturn in the 11th is often raised in a world of adults so that they often do not fit in with their peers. When D, they seek a functional purpose in a group in order to feel that they belong.
When â„ž, they can become terrified of groups (they were often raised by adults too and they may not relate well to people their own age). Direct assumes responsibilities in groups but the â„ž people often say that they never do this because of â€œself imposed limitations.â€
Saturn in the 12th has a lot of fears connected with authority and abandonment. They often isolate themselves and appear anti-social. These people either find a safe government job where they can work independently or they become self-employed.
FEEDBACK ON SATURN RETROGRADE
- âœ One student commented that she was not allowed to do anything for herself – from the routine things like doing laundry, cooking and cleaning so, as an adult, she does not know how to set limits for herself.
âœFrom Pat G:
Although the Saturn retrograde phenomena may indeed suggest loss of the father, the retrograde condition more likely suggests the absence of authoritative guidance provided by the father. The father may be present but not involved in the child’s development. Work may usurp all of his time. He may be unable to give such guidance because of his own lack of structure. Or he may be tyrannical or an anachronism. The situation is really one of dysfunction whether the actual father is present or not.
ATTENTION: There are conditions that require modification of this guideline. A retrograde Saturn in the 10th in Capricorn is unlikely to signify an absence of authority. Also, when there is an absence of the father in actuality, there are compensating configurations such as lunar node aspects. These configurations suggest the maternal presence that provides that guidance. Single mothers are both mom and dad.
This is not a bad position to have. It is more rebellious but these people may not always see themselves as rebellious. Like Mars, it is where you bottle up, bottle up, bottle up and then rebel!
When Direct, the individual finds that their intuition, sense of rebellion and independence flow naturally like in a stream.
When â„ž, it gets blocked initially (not honored by the individual who sees him or she self as very normal) and then it explodes. Intuition has fits of explosion that seems more creative over all – they have a dry spell (in weather, when you have no rain) when they do not feel creative at all and then BOOM!
Retrograde makes Uranus more potent when it explodes forth! Because it builds up, it has a higher energy level when it expresses itself.
The Reformer Complex is quite strong with Uranus â„ž so they can make mountains out of molehills – something small can get blown up into something very big. It can be more dogmatic yet they may deny what is going on because they see themselves as being very normal.
The difference between D and R is that R see themselves as being quite normal when they are not. They are less aware and not always in touch with Uranus within themselves.
A friend with Uranus R unaspected in the 9th House finds it impossible to incorporate her metaphysical knowledge into her professional life (she is a psycho-therapist).
â€¢ Students have commented that they feel that they must change first before then can rebel against the situation.
â€¢ They need to learn WHY they need to rebel in order to validate themselves and make changes.
Uranus in the 1st is highly independent anyway but, when R, the individual may not always realize how super-independent he or she really is! This emphasizes the Uranus Râ€™s need to be involved in activities associated with reform and rehabilitation. The â€œbottle-up-rebelâ€ pattern colors all areas of their lives and manifests as a â€œcomply-change/rebelâ€ quality in relationships, the career or even the residence.
Uranus R in 2nd is not in touch with the need to be unconventional in how they earn a living. If they get into normal jobs, it manifests in a lack of financial stability – they do not realize that the instability is part of their rebelling against the normal.
â€¢ Stability comes from doing the unconventional.
â€¢ Being in a very secure, high-level government job would not make them happy in the long run. They would probably get sick or get fired!
â€¢ It may take them a long time to realize this need to be unconventional in their work – the longer it takes, the more disruptive the change will be.
Uranus R in the 3rd is like Mars, manifesting problems in the early education due to sudden rebellious urges. I have observed people tolerating their siblings and then one day just breaking off the relationships completely.
Uranus in the 4th can make normal choices for home, family and living environment but these never seem to work. Their early home life appeared normal but it was not. There can be an aptitude for environment reforms.
Uranus in the 5th – They see themselves as normal but others see them as anti-social and they always feel left out of these normal situations. They are unconventional and, therefore, become â€œwallflowersâ€ until they find their place in an unconventional world.
Uranus R in the 6th House has a very sensitive physical body. They should not over-work or work when tired or upset. This can lead to health problems. They prefer to work alone because, being around other peopleâ€™s electro-magnetic fields (auras), is disruptive to their own energy field. This can make them abrupt and impatience with co-workers. They do best in making reforms in the work systems. They get bored easily and need to move on, if they cannot work alone.
Uranus R in the 7th prefers a sudden, â€œin-loveâ€ feeling in a relationship. When the relationship becomes normal and not very exciting, it suddenly ends. They may not even understand why. Everything seems to be going just fine and then POP… thatâ€™s the end of the relationship. They are not good at relationship confrontations. I have observed that they prefer to live in the â€œin-loveâ€ stage and not deal with a relationship when it becomes real.
I knew one man who always ended a relationship when the woman seems that, despite his PhD, he is a failure in life (never paid taxes). He bought a new relationship so he could â€œtell his story anew.â€
Uranus R in the 8th – one individual said that they were very good at getting people to change their financial habits. They experience strange events that seem beyond their control. These events can be life-changing. They often have powerful psychic or multi-dimensional experiences. As a result of a death around them, the life is completely altered â€“ and this is often for the good.
â€¢ When a womanâ€™s cousin died, she looked in the coffin and saw the cousin smiling and happy
â€¢ She thought â€“ if I died today, would I be happy? Hell No â€“ so she went home and told her husband that she was unhappy and wanted a divorce.
Uranus R in the 9th can produce problems with orthodox religions and traditional educational programs. They need to find their own innovative way in these areas. They can thrive upon activist activities and reform in politics.
Uranus in 10th, like Direct, does best in some job where another has given up or failed â€“ how much worse can they do if the previous person failed. Uranus does not like comparisons with others. They may not be good at starting at the ground level of a professional activity.
Uranus in the 11th is given to sudden goal changes that seem to come out of nowhere. Groups based upon reform and activism are favored.
â€¢ One friend is always getting into arguments or hurt feelings within groups and she always quits
â€¢ Some find it easier to be friends at a distance; close relationships trigger defense mechanisms
Uranus in the 12th fears being crazy â€“ this was actually a parentâ€™s fear. A parent may have criticized their behavior – â€œYou do not want people to think you are crazy?!â€ Therefore, they become afraid that they might be judged crazy. They need to become involved with New Age or other unconventional people in order to feel comfortable with themselves.
â€¢ One friend feared the judgment of others for her interest in astrology. Astrology magazines were hidden in her desk drawer or kept at home. When she went to an astrology meeting, she finally felt at home
â€¢ Years ago I gave readings for ARE members to raise money for the local organization. So many of these people had Uranus in the 12th House. Their involvement in groups that believed in reincarnation, astrology and other metaphysical subjects provided a safe haven for their unconventional side. It was a place where they could feel normal.
When Neptune is Direct, its House position is where you seek to fulfill your dreams, where you can manifest things, and where you seek to escape reality and, when it is Direct, it is much easier to get a handle on what that dream or vision really is. Direct rules more traditional forms of creativity.
Neptune R tends to be vague, unclear and the individual may not know exactly what they are looking for in expressing their personal creativity.
If Neptune turns direct by progression, it signifies that time when they suddenly realize what they want to do creatively â€“ it can be something that they have been doing all along and did not realize it!
Neptune rules where you have an ability to manifest, to creative from your imagination, but R may not be aware of this ability. Neptune R is extremely sensitive, more so than direct, because of the connection with unseen realms. This is where their creativity expresses itself – through the psychic, the metaphysical, the intuitive, the spiritual, the humanitarian – not something traditionally seen as creative.
Because of their heightened sensitivity, they need to avoid drugs, alcohol and stimulants. The tendency is stronger to cultivate addictions to dull the astral body, the solar plexus, and this can get them into trouble.
This heightened sensitivity can encourage fears, paranoia and phobic conditions – that connection with the unseen realities, the veil between the seen and the unseen.
These people are naturally very psychic but they may not realize this. This may engender fears of the unseen which they do not understand.
These people pick up a lot from the astral plane – other peopleâ€™s thoughts and feelings can be perceived as their own. Smoking often cuts off the astral stimulation.
EXAMPLE: When I am giving tarot reading, if there is too much smoke around me, my psychic ability is cut off and my intuition is gone. I have observed psychics and other sensitive people who smoke to cut off this â€œpicking upâ€ of others energies because it is just too draining.
This Neptune is not clear about what it wants because it is not something tangible that they seek.
They can more readily pick up qualities in another that the person will never manifest in reality. This can cause them to attract â€œLosers.â€ They see the potential…a potential that never becomes a reality.
Neptune in the 1st is so receptive to the environment that they do not know who they are or what they feel. They must learn some type of discipline, setting up boundaries, so that they can tell the difference between their mood and anotherâ€™s mood. Read the Empath article on this website.
Neptune R in the 2nd is not a lot different than D. These people always need to view finances realistically. Generally, Neptune in the 2nd indicates that parents never really showed you how to do things and, therefore, you do not always know the value of your efforts.
– Money may come magically; then it disappears magically.
– For me, my mother would put me on a budget but my grandmother would slip me $20.
– So, obviously, this is not a realistic position for Neptune, D or R.
Having Neptune in my 2nd, I had to teach myself everything about money and the value of my efforts. This has not been easy. But, money always seems to appear magically when I need it. If I want something badly enough, I can manifest it.
Since I know how vulnerable I am or unknowledgeable in financial matters, I am very cautious about the get-rich-quick schemes and I never lend money to someone who I fear will not pay it back. Neptune R may not do this.
– They can use Mental Magic to manifest money.
– There is a need to be more practical in financial matters. I know this about myself — no boundaries!
– Spending depends upon my mood. But, I do know myself so I pay all of my bills every month. I have no interest charges.
– Since Neptune rules my 8th and it is sextile Venus in the 11th, I do receive money from others, esp. family members.
I work hard but I do not receive adequate reward â€“ I never think about money when I give lectures, especially abroad. I am very Neptunian about money but I do manifest what I need.
COMMENT: What you said about natal Neptune in the 2nd rang very true. Growing up, I was nott taught very much, and it made it much more difficult to feel confident as I entered the adult world (Neptune/Mercury/Jupiter in the 2nd/3rd square Moon in the 5th and semi-square Saturn in the 4th).
COMMENT: My parents definitely saw their children as extensions of themselves and not as autonomous individuals with their own strengths/needs/feelings. It has taken a lifetime to become aware of those old patterns and how they affected me in relationships. Even now, when something goes wrong with our digital TV or computer, I will ask my husband (the techno whiz) to SHOW me what he is doing, rather than just fix it. Developing a sense of confidence regarding my ability to take care of things remains important.
Neptune in the 3rd is often attracted to using a nickname because it changes their vibration. A study in numerology is helpful here. They have an affinity with numbers. They sometimes get lost easily.
Neptune in the 4th is overly empathetic to conditions in the home but they may not realize this. They must find a calm, serene domestic environment and living space. A place in the woods with nature would be nice. Chaos and disorder are stressful. There is always a family secret â€“ some â€œskeleton in the closet.â€ There can also be a pattern of alcoholism in the family and this can be the secret.
My favorite Neptune R in the 4th is about a man whose father suddenly disappeared and he was never seen again. As an adult, he learned that his mother wanted to get rid of this man (probably an alcoholic). Since he spoke Spanish, she got him drunk and put him on a plane to take him as far away as possible and where he could speak the language â€“ she choose Argentina.
Neptune in the 5th and 7th Houses are continually looking for a vague type of perfection in relationships. They do not know how idealistic they really are! Disappointment ensues. Neptune in relating Houses seek relationships in order to escape the pain of the reality in their lives. When they start to feel the pain, they move on.
Neptune in 6th is super-sensitive to the work environment and chaos therein. They need an ideal to fulfill in their job but they can be naive in relating – change jobs and long to find what they really want to do…which they may not find.
â€¢ They cannot work in office environments that look like an â€œunmade bed.â€
â€¢ They need to work in an office environment with good colors and order (everything in its place and a place for everything)
Neptune R in the 7th should never mix friends and money. They must avoid people who arouse sympathy â€“ people whom they seek to rescue. There is no such thing as a rescuer – only 2 people vying for the victim slot.
– They can be victimized by only seeing the potential in another rather than actually what is.
– They idealize their relationships, becoming a victim when others do not live up to their delusion
– They idealize others who are actually what they want to be â€“ be that yourself and do not look for this in others
Neptune R in the 8th can have a lot of denial issues around the partnerâ€™s finances and handling of finances. There can be problems with taxes, insurance matters and how money is invested.
A woman with this position told me that her husband would forget about paying bills, misplace them or ignore them all together so she always took charge of financial matters in the marriage â€“ and this is exactly what this Neptune wants her to do!
I have a very long interpretation of Neptune in the 8th that could make an article but, when R, the individual really needs to be aware of what the partner does with joint finances. Do not just sign your joint tax forms without knowing what is on the forms.
The problem with Neptune in the 8th is that it can distort reality to suit the individualâ€™s needs. A relationship can be terrible or wonderful, depending upon the perspective. Yet, the 8th House, ideally, is strongly connected with multi-dimensional realities; it has strong psychic and healing abilities; all of these need to be in service to others rather than focused upon one’s self. When 8th House people focus upon themselves, everything gets distorted.
Neptune R in the 9th is looking for utopian ideas for living on this planet. Since there arenâ€™t any, they get disillusioned a lot. They can even become cynical. Utopia cannot be found in a place. This is another addictive position.
Neptune R in the 10th wants to do something creative with their lives but they usually do not know what it is that they want to do. Neptune R is more humanitarian and spiritual (like a yoga teacher) rather than an artist (D).
EXAMPLE: I once taught a Career class using astrology. All of the students in that class had a strong Neptune â€“ they were not use of what they wanted to do professionally, they were studying for a career for which they were ill-suited or they longed for some type of greatness professionally.
Neptune in the 11th express the vagueness is seeking ideals and people who embody such ideals. They do not really know what they are looking for – often to escape the pain and fear in their personal lives – and they are periodically attracted to people whom they feel embody some sought after ideal.
It is the vision of the moment because they are not really clear about what they are truly seeking. When it is not what they want (or when the group demands a commitment), they move on to something else.
These people can find themselves working in groups, helping those with addictive personalities – such as the 12-Step groups of Alcoholics Anonymous (all types of addicts – drugs, alcohol, sex, food).
As a House of Groups and Friendships, these people can get caught up with affiliating with disorganized groups (spiritual people are rarely organized), groups that have a wonderful ideal of saving the planet but no one really knows what they are doing.
In choosing friends, there is an attraction to dreams and alcoholics. They should never mix friends and money. They must avoid people who arouse sympathy â€“ people whom they seek to rescue. There is no such thing as a rescuer – only 2 people vying for the victim slot.
Neptune in the 12th is so highly mediumistic that coping with reality may be difficult. The 12th House is what was repressed in our childhood. I have observed that Neptune in the 12th to indicate a family pattern of suppressing creativity, to be practical, but a planet there indicates powerful intuitive and creative abilities — that are suppressed. One friend grew up poor so she expressed her creativity by making clothing for herself. Later, she used her intuitive PhD Psychologist, a practical application of her abilities. However, she could never grasp using her perceptions to give an astrology reading. Yet, some great musicians break free from the repression and “channel” popular songs. If one does not break free, you pick up impressions and intuitions that you do not understand from where they are coming. To see from where this ancestral pattern comes, look for the degree distance from your ASC to Neptune. Subtract that difference from your birth year and this will show when in your family’s past the suppression occurred.
Pluto is more intense when Retrograde and this intensity is highly psychological which can make them more suspicious of others because they pick up more at that psychological level.
â€¢ Pluto D is more interested in external power – a great job, lots of money
â€¢ Pluto R is definitely more psychological – investigation, healing, transformational
They register the unseen very quickly, they see the negative side more easily but they need to cut this off because it will isolate them from life and people.
These people have much greater insights into the subconscious. This makes them more loners and introverted. They may have trouble relaxing around many people due to the psychological process and registering so much information.
Powers of regeneration and rejuvenation are incredible in its House position.
Pluto in the 1st (but not within 6 degrees of the 2nd cusp) can first be interpreted as influencing the motherâ€™s attitude during the gestation period.
â€¢ With Pluto rising, mother felt angry, resentful and very resistant to being out of control while pregnant.
â€¢ There may have been tensions occurring within the family and mother internalized the anger with powerful emotions.
â€¢ Even the unborn child felt feelings of being out of control by what was happening during gestation!
With Pluto R, the influence is more psychological rather than expressing an external need to control the environment. As a child, the individual learned to pick up subtle cues from adults â€“ picking up good moods or bad moods, when to assert or when to step back. They make good psychologists or they do well in jobs where profiling others is important. Their powers of physical regeneration are phenomenal!
When Retrograde, these people periodically go through major life transformations. When they are in this process, they withdraw, seem remote and detached but this is their style of transformation.
In the 1st, the early years can have difficulty or health issues. However, with the Retrograde, recuperative abilities are powerful. The intensity of this Pluto is best utilized in service to others â€” medical, legal or coordinating the concerns of the public.
Pluto in the 2nd wants control over its own resources. D is a power issue. R fears the psychological vulnerability. NOTE: Pluto or any planet is considered influencing the 2nd House if it is within 6 degrees in the 1st House, near the 2nd cusp.
â€¢ Obsess over being in control over their own resources and not having another control what they have â€“ what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine
â€¢ They can share but they will not be forced to do so
Pluto in the 3rd can control the minds of others through intense focus. This can make them great teachers, people who can positively influence the minds of others. They can be rebellious in school, resenting the controls in the system. They do not like shallow information and can actually go into too much detail when asked for an answer.
â€¢ Tension in sibling relationships
â€¢ Developed an ability to size up strengths and weaknesses in family members as a survival measure
Pluto R in 4th: Any planet in the 4th House, even a â€œniceâ€ planet, can produce a traumatic event in the childhood. This describes a psychologically controlling or manipulative parent but the child has the ability to gain good psychological insights into the family dynamics that can, ultimately be used in the career or avocation. If the parents divorce, the child may try to get them back together. There can be a separation from the parents or someone in the family over which the child has no control.
â€¢ On a positive note, the individual can be into renovations â€“ a positive type of control.
â€¢ You can always control things but never people. This is only an illusion.
Pluto R in the 5th, there can be difficulty expressing the creative potential. Pluto R is more psychological, such as working with children or playing chess.
â€¢ These people can be late bloomers as a result but not always.
â€¢ With their own type of creativity, they have an intense concentration and focus upon this activity.
With Pluto in the 5th, these people need to BE SOMEONE â€” and they need to develop their creative potential BEFORE having children. Their first born is likely to be talented and this can arouse envy or psychological manipulation (stage mother/father).
This is a very general statement and one need to look at the entire chart.
However, creative and recreative activities are important, especially where the individual uses the mind to a psychological advantage, such as chess and certain sports.
Pluto in the 6th will be very intense in their work. They cannot handle interruptions. This can cause alienation with co-workers.
â€¢ These people work best alone.
â€¢ Not team players generally.
Pluto in the 7th is a bit difficult to establish cooperation because the intensity is so strong that the loner tendencies do not function well sharing the life with another person.
Pluto in the 7th denotes control issues that manifest in all one-to-one relationships. If you are a paid consultant, this is fantastic. However, in a marriage or marriage-type relationship, one person is more controlling. One partner can first appreciate the attention but the danger is that this behavior becomes disempowering.
You need to look at the horoscope to determine who controls and who turns over control to another. Sometimes this really worksâ€¦but, if the controlled partner is rebellious, it will not work.
This is not a bad omen for marriage but a later marriage seems best. They need to learn to compromise and give the other person what they want in order that you get what you want.
â€¢ One client gave her husband an office of his own in order to get him out of the house so she would not be expected by him to be a house wife (she started her own business)
â€¢ One client is a psychotherapist
Pluto in the 8th often feels that they have had to take control of the finances in the marriage. This causes cooperation problems. Another woman said that it was her husband who wanted to be in control and pay all of the bills but he never did – and this caused the friction.
Control issues are very powerful, especially with the Retrograde that has strong psychological implications. They make for wonderful healers â€“ physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, economic/financial and technological.
â€¢ One man said that he did not fix computers â€“ he heals computers
â€¢ One woman reorganizes failing companies so that they can be sold at a profit
Any Retrograde planet in the 9th often indicates that the individual will go back to school in later life. The individual may have dropped out of college because of problems in the educational system but they go back when they know what they want to learn and do career-wise.
Pluto in the 9th R does not like traditional religion â€“ they cannot be who they really are with such rigid judgments by the religion and they can see the hypocrisies in the religious leaders.
The D feels the same but may become very rigid and dogmatic in their beliefs â€” so the rule is to avoid all traditional, dogmatic, judgments religions!
Pluto in 10th – Both R and D in the 10th have problems with authority figures. When they work in an office, they need the boss to disappear and let them do their job. They re-organize the office system so that it is uniquely their own. Sometimes Pluto R does not always receive the recognition that they deserve. But, both need to be in charge. They need to be more mindful of how they treat people in their office, co-workers and employees because they can be a bit controlling and inflexible.
They can be rebellious of authority, especially authority that tries to control or dictate terms to them.
Pluto in the 11th is not a group position but the individual has a gift for going into a group situation, revitalizing it, getting things focused and then leaving. They have a talent for setting the group organization up for another to take over. They do best in ad hoc group situations, coming only to revitalize the group or restructure it for success.
In groups, they can feel like one of the rebellious lemmings going to sea â€“ and they do not want to follow the crowd.
Pluto in the 12th is extremely intense to the point of being strongly disposed for research, investigations and their greatest asset is the ability to help other people help themselves.
â€¢ They have probing insight that psychologically analyzes.
â€¢ They can quickly pick out anotherâ€™s strengths and weaknesses so that they are able to help people help themselves.
â€¢ Like Pluto D, this is a highly protective position in life-threatening situations.